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Eddie B 12:46 Fri Jan 30
Stephen Fry talking about God
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Not sure if the interviewer was quite expecting this sort of reply. Surprised he didn't put his hands over his ears to block out what Fry was saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
HairyHammer
8:42 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie Descent 10.46
Excellent piece of writing very honest too.
I and you are not that different , maybe the only difference being and this I cannot be sure of is that I have seen from close up the way religion comforts people and gives them a purpose, positivity in fact that nothing else could offer them.
Yes it may all be Mickey Mouse stuff but I would never say or feel those people who choose to go deep into the waters of religion are unintelligent or stupid because it is their belief that may stop them from cracking up like a mental earthquake and disappearing into a wilderness of negativity.
Eerie I disagree with nothing that you say in your piece apart from one thing, you are happy to be sure about your belief that religion and God does not exist and it being a man made phenomena being 100% true, I on the other hand sit on the fence and sway on the side of God existing I simply do not have that much conviction apart from what i have seen with my own eyes (Decent religious people practising peacefully ) I actually do not mind Religious people or the masses who believe that God exists.
I see Religion no different to choosing a football team as a young child probably because your dad has made you and sticking to it no matter how bad or good they play or indeed how truly atrocious and nasty some of its fans may be. That may not be the best analogy but it works for me.
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QWERTY Ard Man
8:40 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Love the cut aways to Byrne's expression of shock.
I think Christianity is a good way to live your life if you boil it down to Jesus saying "wouldn't the world be a great place if everyone was reasonable to each other" - then you can ignore all the other crap
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Willtell
5:46 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie Descent 10:46
Well said Jibbers. I normally get bored reading long posts and switch off but I read all of that and I have to say, it mirrors my own thoughts on religion.
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defjam
4:52 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie Descent 1:27 - I didn't know this till last year but a good friends mum went to a convent school, she read the bible every day without fail, she devoted her life to jesus etc but her last year she got a type of brain cancer so was in unbelievable pain and she died a horrible long painful death.
I waited outside the service as i can't stand the religious bollocks at the best of times but i popped in and the vicar was holding her bible and saying look how worn out it was with her love for jesus etc and i just wanted to shout out "Yes and look what she got rewarded with!!!"
One of my best and closest friends is a proper bible bashing wierdo and she complains life isn't going well etc all the time but if something good happens then it's all down to her 'Faith' in jesus etc
I post my storm chasing photos up on a FB page and this morning someone posted this
"Today is National Weatherperson's Day, a day set aside to honor those in the fields of meteorology, forecasting and broadcast meteorology, as well as volunteer storm spotters. chasers and observers. It's not easy: the weather is always changing. They are not in control (God is). But they work 24/7/365 to keep us informed, to warn us when bad weather is on the way. Some put themselves in harm's way to keep us safe. They are lambasted when they are wrong or interrupt TV programming to cover a weather event. To all of my meteorologist, storm chaser, storm spotter, and weather observer friends: THANK YOU for all you do. Thanking God for the weather: it's brought some amazing people into my life. =]'
So my reply was this...
'I guess this is the same god that can't control Tsunami's, avalanches, tornados etc etc
'god' can't even control nature, probably because he doesn't exist!
Happy weatherperson day.'
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Hammer and Pickle
4:44 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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As has been pointed out not only by the social psychologist Abraham Maslow but the 19th century German philosopher Max Scheler, our materialistic, immediate cause and effect needs only make up the bottom of a hierarchy of motivations that "make us tick". These higher motivations have been called "holy" or "spiritual", but they can equally be referred to as "social" or "universal" and certainly need no god or choirs of angels to be clearly articulated.
It's enough to imagine the network of relations we merge with when we really get the most out of life, and consider one's activity in relation to it, to rise beyond the promptings of immediate personal hunger and thirst, pleasure and security.
Anyway, this has far less to do with religion and far more with common sense and decency.
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AfM
4:16 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Hermit Road 12:00 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
In the essentially useless philosophical debate, you may well d right.
Meanwhile, in reality there is every possibility that cause and effect can lead to a material brain which is capable of independant thought.
You also have a peculiar habit of thinking that if you are an atheist, you necessarily have a materialistic worldview. Again, this simply isn't true.
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cholo
1:36 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie
If christianity is right and Joseph repented at some point he might be up there waiting for miss fritzl when she passes.
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Eerie Descent
1:27 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Indeed mate, and yep, you can make your own luck to a certain level. However, a kid born in dirt poor poverty in Uganda, ill from birth, dies before they reach puberty, cannot really alter their luck, no matter what they do.
Simple fact is, wrong place, wrong time, it doesn't matter what sort of person you've been, or what odds you've weighed in your favour, there's not a lot you can do.
And I've always wondered what sort of payback in kind those that have really suffered get when they die? Say for instance, a person who lived a good life, done nothing wrong, had nothing really bad happen to them, compared to say Fritzl's daughter, who was to young to have done anything too wrong before she was put through her ordeal, what are their deals when they go to heaven? Do they get the same treatment? If our lives are written out for us and everything happens for a reason, what fucking reason will she be given?
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BRANDED
1:16 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie Descent 10:46 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
From the age of 7 I have never ever felt the need for religion. Purpose, yes. Guidance, yes. Structure, yes. Love, yes. I have never ever felt the slightest need to look for these ever in a religion.
As for luck. Most of us know you can make a lot of your own luck. You can always weigh the odds. This means that if you are unlucky you are really well and truly unlucky as you really set the chances as far as possible in your favour.
Weirdly enough I have found that a very controlled, sensible lifestyle with consideration to others, not over indulging too much, acting in they way I would expect others to act, being polite and pleasant most of the time has worked well for me.
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Ridikzappa
1:00 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie Descent
What a fantastic bit of writing, old chap. Brilliant.
I notice silly old Hairy has gone quiet.
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kch
12:13 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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"the idea that we can have choice in a universe without him, is manifestly false"
sexist as well as delusional.
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Joke Whole
12:12 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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There may or may not be a god. Doesn't matter either way; if there is, there is, if there isn't there isn't. Whatever I THINK (or believe) won't alter that one bit, so I can't really see why anybody spends time worrying about it either way.
There may just be one universe (this one that created just the right conditions in a minute part for life to evolve as it has so far). There MAY be an infinite number of universes, of which we inhabit but one. Within that infinite number of universes, there may be an infinite number with a god and there may be an infinite number without a god - and all points in between. We don't know, if there are such universes, which one contains us.
For me, sitting honestly in the "Don't know" camp is a much better option than stating categorically as fact something that, in reality, is just opinion.
Millions of others may share that opinion, but it's still just an opinion.
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cholo
12:09 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Hermit
An omniscient god and free will is problematic too.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/free-will-foreknowledge/
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Hermit Road
12:00 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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AfM 4:47 Thu Feb 5
There is nothing to suggest that that is possible and everything to suggest that it isn't. It simply isn't possible within a materialist worldview to accept that some matter obeys the law of cause and effect, and some doesn't.
There may not be a God but the idea that we can have choice in a universe without him, is manifestly false. The statement, 'I choose not to believe in God' is an oxymoron.
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easthammer
11:36 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie
In no way was I trying to alter your thinking. Good for you if you are at peace with yourself. For me a belief in God is constant challenge a bit like supporting West Ham - only easier of course :)
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defjam
11:23 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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HairyHammer 5:25 Thu Feb 5
'Do you understand that most things are to do with circumstance ? I.E if you are doing well in life or your parents were not religious or taught it to you harshly you are much more likely to be atheist, it is that simple.'
Not really, it largely depends on if you're a sheep or can use your own brain.
Both my parents were very religious whereas i'm not, i don't believe in a god either.
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Eerie Descent
11:22 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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I've probably read similar things mate, but this isn't a one moment thing I decided on a whim. I'm really comfortable with my views on it, and to be honest, a much better person for it all round.
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easthammer
11:17 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Eerie
you wrote
"Then it hit me. It's luck. Everything. Every thing that happens to us, where we are born, who we are born to, the education we are provided, the illnesses we get/avoid. Absolute roll of the dice. We can help ourselves, we can work hard, live healthy, be a good person etc. But we are 1 moment away from absolute disaster. And what keeps us from that disaster? Luck, my friend. Don't matter how much you pray, you could have some drunk nutter in a car pile into a family of 4, killing 2 young kids. And you think someone has created this situation? Tell you what, if someone or something has, then it is some evil, twisted, fucked up cunt, who I personally want nothing to do with."
Earlier I posted on here a reference to "The God of Chance" (available free as an e-book) I really think you would find it an interesting (if somewhat difficult read). It deals (attempts to deal) with the points you make above.
Incidentally as some who does believe in God I have both sympathy and empathy with what you are saying above and neither am I concerned with the after life.
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Eerie Descent
10:46 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Hairy,
Firstly, let's get the accusation out of the way. I've been far more damning about catholicism in this thread than I have about Islam. So this 'thing' I have is about religion. Ok? Good.
Right, the circumstance bit is EXACTLY what I understand. It is due to circumstance that you are a muslim. It's due to circumstance that a kid born in Pakistan is most likely to be muslim, as much as a kid in the Philippines is most likely to be catholic. And most of these kids don't have a choice, and they're not educated and free enough to think anything else, so they are religious by default. Just like in a lot of more progressive countries, like ours, were in the past, but that is changing faster than religion is growing. That is simple fact.
Me? My dad thinks he's a catholic, but he has had his own demons, and is not the brightest light out there. My mum couldn't care either way, and doesn't really have an opinion. I come from a proper working class family, very close, but there was no forcing of anything from them. It was just kind of accepted when I was a kid that you believed in god.
I went to shit schools, abysmal, I was lucky that I could read and write naturally, and was always questioning anything that was put to me. I was fed the religious doctrine, there was classes that taught it as truth, but I couldn't help myself doubting what they were telling me. It didn't make sense. I admit to finding solace in 'praying' inside my head, in a 'please god' kind of way like you do as a kid. But the older I got, the more absurd the whole idea became. What am I praying for? What am I wishing for? Is it all about me? Why is this happening to me? Why the fuck not? Why if praying works, are people like Josef Fritzl's daughter not heard or taken seriously day after day, year after year, whilst her own father raped her in front of the kids he fathered? Why do some people get really bad, life changing illness in their prime, when some horrible people, rapist, murderers, seem to live unpunished?
Then it hit me. It's luck. Everything. Every thing that happens to us, where we are born, who we are born to, the education we are provided, the illnesses we get/avoid. Absolute roll of the dice. We can help ourselves, we can work hard, live healthy, be a good person etc. But we are 1 moment away from absolute disaster. And what keeps us from that disaster? Luck, my friend. Don't matter how much you pray, you could have some drunk nutter in a car pile into a family of 4, killing 2 young kids. And you think someone has created this situation? Tell you what, if someone or something has, then it is some evil, twisted, fucked up cunt, who I personally want nothing to do with.
That is simplifying things, but that is how simple it is. I don't need to go much deeper than that. I can, and have, but that is all I need. It's too simple, too obvious, to see how fucking odd it is to believe in that shit once you are a fully informed and educated adult.
As for me not needing religion, are you suggest I have never had a problem? Never been to some dark places where I feel there is no other route to take than religion? I think most of us have, mate. But I no longer find solace in a deity. I find life much easier to accept, and much more beautiful, knowing it is chance. I enjoy life in the main these days, I have good people around me, and when things go wrong, very wrong, I don't beg for anything, beg for forgiveness when I've done wrong. I accept I make mistakes as a human being, I accept that some days my luck is not in, I'm just thankful that my luck is not as bad as some others, and hope, NOT pray, that it stays that way. Because I know that won't be forever. And once my time is up, I'm happy in the knowledge that I had my time, and that's that, and it doesn't scare me one bit that there isn't some other place to go after.
That's without getting into things like in what form do you exist in the afterlife.
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i-Ron
10:10 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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The girl at my work was also under the wrongful impression that Gays are responsible for AIDS...
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side effect
9:41 Thu Feb 5
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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I just ate sausage beens and chippings so there
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